iinitial english version - radio-interview-2018 - absmagazine interview about bitreich and gopher transcription files	Err	bitreich.org	70
hgit clone git://bitreich.org/radio-interview-2018	URL:git://bitreich.org/radio-interview-2018	bitreich.org	70
1Log	/scm/radio-interview-2018/log.gph	bitreich.org	70
1Files	/scm/radio-interview-2018/files.gph	bitreich.org	70
1Refs	/scm/radio-interview-2018/refs.gph	bitreich.org	70
1Tags	/scm/radio-interview-2018/tag	bitreich.org	70
1README	/scm/radio-interview-2018/file/README.gph	bitreich.org	70
1LICENSE	/scm/radio-interview-2018/file/LICENSE.gph	bitreich.org	70
i---	Err	bitreich.org	70
1commit 7a1542bbbf0897fe8bc65bb4eb8aa76b4856907d	/scm/radio-interview-2018/commit/7a1542bbbf0897fe8bc65bb4eb8aa76b4856907d.gph	bitreich.org	70
1parent 2fa37ee45292f9c07c94692f3ef46f5622a3f5cf	/scm/radio-interview-2018/commit/2fa37ee45292f9c07c94692f3ef46f5622a3f5cf.gph	bitreich.org	70
hAuthor: Christian Kellermann <ckeen@pestilenz.org>	URL:mailto:ckeen@pestilenz.org	bitreich.org	70
iDate:   Tue, 14 Aug 2018 13:24:53 +0200	Err	bitreich.org	70
i	Err	bitreich.org	70
iinitial english version	Err	bitreich.org	70
i	Err	bitreich.org	70
iDiffstat:	Err	bitreich.org	70
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1diff --git a/english.txt b/english.txt	/scm/radio-interview-2018/file/english.txt.gph	bitreich.org	70
i@@ -0,0 +1,686 @@	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+[intro music]	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+Michael(M): Here's the ABS Magazin - "Arbeit, Bildung und Soziales"	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+- Your magazine about social policies here on radio x the Frankfurt	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+citizen radio.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+Nice to have you all here! Thanks for listening! We have got a new episode	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+for you, exciting things from the realm of communication technology.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+We want to talk specifically about the internet... No, we do not want to	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+talk about the internet, neither do we want to talk about the dark net	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+today, but something even more obscure: Today will be about 'gopherspace'.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+'Gopher' is a protocol, which has been introduced a bit earlier than	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+the world wide web. But it has faded a bit into obscurity. A protocol,	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+which might have to be said, is the way how computers talk to each	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+other, how they exchange their data. You may have heard about the HTTP	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+protocol. You are using this when typing an URL into your brower. Or	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+there is a protocol handling the exchange of E-Mails. And there's the	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+'gopher' protocol. Which is interesting in particular as it is simple	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+and similar to the web, such as: Gopher server provide text and provide	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+links. What they do not provide are pictures, additional features,	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+Javascript or other complicated things.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+This restriction providing test and links does also mean, that you can	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+work very fast with it, pages do load super fast. And there are people	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+saying that the web is too bloated, there's too much advertising, to	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+much nick-nack. It is getting more and more difficult to get to the real	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+information on a site. Under these circumstance it is to the point to	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+have a closer look at the gopher protocol.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+We have talked to someone, who's knowledgable in this field. There	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+is a group of people who will hold a conference soon, to discuss the	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+future of the gopher protocol and how to build a real, interesting,	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+alternative to the world wide web. But now we will have a little bit	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+of music: Mrs. Beep with 'The spring is comming' a little bit of 8bit	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+music. After that we will talk with Christoph Lohmann, who will tell us	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+something about the gopher protocol.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+[...music cut out...]	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+Yes, now we have Christop here. He is a bit of a computer nerd, a	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+hobbyist, who is tinkering with software, hardware, programming and	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+protocols -- everything that's computer related and how they communicate.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: Hello Christoph!	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+Christoph(C): Greetings Michael, here's Christoph!	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: I have read that you are running a project called 'bitreich'. This	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+project is using some protocols that aren't known widely. But what's	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+this project about?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: bitreich's goal si to create simple software. This includes simple	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+protocols like gopher. Simple principles, software that's fun to use. Our	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+goals are stated on the website or better the gopherhole.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: Yes...	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: There are.. Well, we wanted to talk about gopher. It's about replacing	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+big complex thingswith simple stuff which you can even implement yourself.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: Gopher does translate as 'Maulwurf' (german) right?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: Yes it does, it is derived from the gopher mascott of the MIT,	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+a university in the US. Also it is a pun on 'to go for'.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: This protocol has existed for quite a long time now, probably earlier	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+than the world wide web?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: It has been developed in 1991, where the goal has been to connect	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+different databases at MIT with a hierarchical protocol. It has been	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+surpassed by the web sadly, which has been picked up faster, to put	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+it simply.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: How do the web and gopher differ?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: One has to differentiate between the data transport and display. In	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+the web there's HTTP for transport, then HTML for displaying the web	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+page in my browser. In gopher I have one protocol that already defines	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+simple menus. I know exactly that an item is a link and what will happen,	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+when I click on it. They are already defined in the protocol. Which	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+means the structure is more strict. As opposed to the web.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: So like, when I am on a website often I have to relearn the navigation	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+and where to find things...	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: That's another issue on the web. There are even languages and	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+mechanisms, that can hide this from you. And a 'link' nowadays does not	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+mean 'go to this website' anymore. That's part of the problem. In gopher	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+you have this simplified, there's a link pointing to somewhere and I	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+just follow that. On the end of the link there may be another menu and	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+so on forming a tree of information for me to browse.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: If I understood you correctly, the display of data in gopher is mostly	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+text based?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: That's how it has been defined, yes. It's all about text. Images	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+have been added to it, but back in the days there have been all these	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+terminals with these old screens only capable of displaying text. But	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+it's about text, it's about a simple way to exchange information. And	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+that's pure text.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: Or two people talk to each other, they also can exchange ideas or	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+information that way.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: Yeah, text is even more simple. If you take this further, there's for	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+example linux, which listeners may have heard about. That's about how I	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+can do text processing on the command line. With images you'll have to	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+deal with more complex algorithms and that's not as easy to use.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: Hearing all this I think this is also about using simple programs	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+that use less resources? If I transfer a text file it is probably much	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+smaller than an Image or a video file.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: Yes, that's right. I can tell a story where I have needed this	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+badly: In Bhutan in south asia, north of India, where it's all about	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+the happyness of people, not like here… They have got a GSM Network	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+only. There has been a blackout and there has been only this slow data	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+network. But I have successfully retrieved my needed information via	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+gopher. It does not need a lot of resources.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: So it is a protocol that's interesting for areas that are less	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+developed or where the aren't so many resources available?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: Yes, gopher saves resources, but over all, since the web's problem is	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+illustrated with youtube: Someone reads a text in a video which is served	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+in HD and viewed on a 4k monitor. I could have sent out the text instead!	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: So the approach is this: Here is a protocol and programs, allowing to	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+transfer information efficiently and fast. Sometimes as much information	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+as in a read out video. Is this a new trend?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: Gopher has been dormant for a long time, since the web has gotten	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+popular. The current developments are that smart phones are getting	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+more powerful with more CPU cores on one hand but the systems get	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+slower more and more on the other hand. This prompted a lot of people	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+to think about alternatives. Also among experts who know about the web's	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+complexity. Gopher is a part of this alternative.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: So there's a movement that strives for less complexity and resource	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+usage?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: Yes, it's about the internet, not only the web. There's a lot more	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+besides the web. Bitreich is the part where software shall become simpler,	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+since that's all connected.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: In your bitreich software development you write programs, that you	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+use for yourself or because they are so simple to use them yourself...?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: It's about the command line in bitreich, for experienced users. The	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+graphical user interfaces need a lot of resources. Gopher is the part	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+for the end user. For developers it's about having nice command line	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+tools that are fun to use. That's our goal. And that's achievable through	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+simplicity only.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: Are modern tools too complicated with their graphical interfaces? I	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+that really taking out the fun?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: Well, in the old days you'd have opened a text editor, which used up	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+200 kilobyte of RAM. Today when you open up an editor it will load a	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+webbroser in the background, this webbrowser will load javascript and	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+this all uses up to several gigabytes of your RAM. And then this all	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+has to display your source file. That's the current state of affairs!	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: When you say you want to find new ways with bitreich project, to use	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+less resources. Does it work? What are your experiences? Is it really	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+more fun than viewing smooth videos on YouTube?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: I can see that I won't burn my upper legs when using gopher	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+as opposed to viewing a website, where my laptop fan goes on and	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+everything. Currently there are about 300 gopher servers, so we are	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+a small fraction on the net. The whole web currently uses ~2% of the	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+global electricity, sometimes even more…	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: But one needs to have a bit of a background to use all this? If I	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+imagine how easy it is today for average smartphone user to surf the	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+web or go into a chat with other people exchanging text messages. You	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+can visit an app store and will find ready made software. One click I'll	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+get it installed. If I want to use gopher that's not so easy is it? Or	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+a program to chat with others?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: There are different layers here. First you start by visiting	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+gopherproject.org and if you are not using a gopher client you will	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+be redirected to a 'web to gopher converter'. You'll be able to browse	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+gopher sites in your webbrowser. And that's the entry point where you	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+will get to further gates.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: So it's a gateway that I can use with a normal browser that does not	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+speak gopher and still be able to browse gopher sites?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: There are also plugins for webbrowsers, at least firefox and	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+chromium. One of the problems is that currently there has been a change	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+in plugins for these so there might be incompatiblilities. There are	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+many more clients listed on gopherproject.org.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: What about chat? I know there was a protocol that has been in use a	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+lot: IRC - Internet relay chat. That's not as popular today is it?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: It is popular among software developers, because every open source	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+project has their own channel. That's the easiest way to talk to	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+developers and users. There are web clients, mobile clients, command	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+line clients. IRC is implemented almost everywhere.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: That's capable of doing the things you can do with a messenger on	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+the smartphone?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: It could but does not want to?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: Really?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: I do have the possibility to share, say a video, in whatsapp or	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+images. You do not want this on IRC, it is a simple protocol. It's about	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+sharing text. If I would add media, it would be impossible for hobbyists	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+to run their own servers. You'd need more infrastructure on the size of	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+facebook for example…	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: You have said that 'hobbyists wouldn't be able to run their own	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+servers'. Does that mean it is easy to set up?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: There are several possibilities: There's debian for example, a well	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+known linux distribution, there are simple tutorials and instructions	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+on how to set this up. A server has a monthly cost of about 3 EUR/month,	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+which will be able to run a IRC server.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: And that's easy to get running?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: The server side is a bit more complicated, the client access is	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+really easy.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: What other protocols are there, that follow this same idea of	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+preserving bandwith and resources while being comparable replacements?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: Before the web there have been many other protocols already, based	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+on the TCP/IP protocol. On there are ~65000 different ports that can be	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+used. Today we send all over one or two ports for HTTP and encrypted	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+HTTPS. There are many more protocols. For example 'dict': A protocol	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+to query dictionary servers. You send a request 'I'd like to know the	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+definition of this word' to the server and get back the definition of	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+the requested word as text.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: Is this still in use? How would I use this today?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: There is dict.org which maintains the protocol. Bitreich has its	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+own dictionary server for the urban dictionary which contains funny	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+definitions of words. It's just another service, not inherently difficult.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: What other protocols are interesting for you?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: There's newsgroups, but the problem with them is spam. There's	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+no efficient spam filtering method for newsgroups which is why they	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+died. They have survived as a medium to exchange binary data. Which	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+is why they are blocked in a lot of places due to them being used for	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+piracy. And the servers don't scale since they all need to keep track	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+of all the data on the network…	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+Then there's the Tor protocol…	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: Tor has also been around for a while. There have been spectacular	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+events surrounding the Tor protocol. It's about anonymity right?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: Yes it is about anonymity. Today we now about the spy agencies	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+through Snowden and them surveilling all the routers in Frankfurt and	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+elsewhere. Which means they know where a data packet originates and	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+ends. Tor packages data in a way that one cannot see the way the a packet	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+is travelling. But the problem with Tor and the web is that there is a	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+lot of meta data in a webbrowser. This can be used to identify users. This	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+is where gopher can help.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: So Tor is a method to hide your identity and what websites you are	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+visiting. When you say that there is too much meta data in a browser,	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+then this means: Information about the browser's config, installed fonts,	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+size of available RAM etc. Taken together all this information makes	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+a user's device unique as there are maybe only ~1000 people having the	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+same configuraition. That's how one can identify users right?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: Yes, that's how it works. Gopher can help here because there's a	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+defined amount of meta data: zero. With Tor there are a couple of things	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+one has to be aware of: I can leave the Tor network to visit a service	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+outside or I can access a service inside the Tor network. If I stay	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+completely inside the Tor network, there's no way for spy agencies to	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+find the 'end trail' of my packets. That's total anonymity. If I use this	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+to access the Facebook hidden service and I login with my credentials	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+I identify myself, so that's pointless. But on gopher there's no way	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+to login...	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: If you use Tor and you login somewhere then your identity isn't hidden	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+anymore of course…	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: That's a problem for inexperienced users. They download the	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+Tor-Browser, want to share their secrets about their regime. If I jsut	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+hand them a torbrowser, it has certain metadata which spy agencys have	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+special filters for. So they can be found easily. Which means all the	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+basic layers have to be designed securely that the average whistleblower	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+will not get in trouble.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: There have been differnt attempts at preserving privacy and not	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+handing over data to big companies, by not taking part in one of the big	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+networks. Are there alternatives to them? As opposed to using Facebook	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+& Co.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: There's GNU Social for example or mastodon. If I go to facebook all	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+data goes in and I get nothing out again. But if I use one of these	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+(slightly more complex) protocols on my home server I can exchange	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+messages with my friend in france, like: 'He has shared this picture or	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+text message to the group'. That's decentralisation.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: So there's no central datacenter holding all information, but many	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+servers holding on to what they need to know only.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: The facebook data scandal happened at the right time. There you	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+noticed that there's political resistance. So facebook, Microsoft and	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+others started a project to exchange and export data. But so far Facebook	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+hasn't delivered.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: With export you mean exporting user data?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: I am referring to my timeline and all this.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: Are there many people using GNU Social or mastodon? Or is this a	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+niche for specialists and nerds that care more about their privacy?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: It's really easy to use: enter 'gnu.social' in a webbrowser and	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+you will get redirected ot a server instance. There are many of them	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+and you choose the one where all your friends are already in the best	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+case. You sign up there and then you will use this server to post into	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+the network. It's all usable within the browser and it looks a lot	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+like facebook.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: We have talked about software and how to install it. You need to have	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+some background knowledge for using a command line as it is just a window	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+with text, you enter text commands etc. What do you think about people	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+getting into this: Does this have the potential to being used by a lot	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+of people or even becomming mainstream? Can this work? Or is this too	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+unwieldy and slow and complex for them?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: Let's look at the argument someone makes when switching from windows	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+to linux: But there's only a command line! But if I take interest in	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+my device then I'll learn how to use it. Back in the days I could fix	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+a radio myself. Today I don't know what this funny device is doing…	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: Yes?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: That's the point. It's about having fun with computers. If you regain	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+that you'll learn how it operates and you'll dig deeper. And you will	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+be able to modify it yourself.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: On the other hand a modern radio or computer does have a lot	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+more features than a cathode tube radio, like searching for stations	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+automatically, data transfer and offering a combination of different	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+sources (analog radio, digital radio, internet streams). That's way easier	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+than fiddling with the station knob yourself until you are listening to	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+the station you want.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: I want to make a counter proposal: The problem with this is that you'll	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+have to buy a new device every year a new protocol is established. But	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+there are also things like the Raspberry Pi that's running linux and you	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+can build your peripherals around that. If you want you can exchange	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+that for something with more computing power later. It's all about	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+modularity and wasting less. For computers and smartphones we do see	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+this developments towards open source hardware. It will take very long	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+due to vendors actively blocking these efforts.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: Simple usage also enables more people to use this technology. For	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+example a navigation service on my smartphone is more comfortable than	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+carrying around paper maps.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: That's why we talk about this. People need to know that the price	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+for all this comfort is being under total surveillance. And the	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+machine controlls me. That's why one needs to know how the machine	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+works. Otherwise this will all be like magic and magic is never a good	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+thing. We need more science.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: I'd like to come back to the navigation example: I've got a smartphone	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+with an app and can accurately see where I am. That's a service I'd like	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+to use, but I don't want to wade through complex software and install	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+text only interfaces. That's too much for most people I think?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: Yes, noone will get attracted because of that. We do advocate that	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+every project should be reusable. If we talk about maps, there's a map	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+database, openstreetmap. There's someone that inputs all the maps into	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+the database, there's a program generating maps. Now someone can put a	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+text interface in front of the database to get to the same data. Not like	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+facebook where data is hidden behind one web interface. If Facebook's	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+going out of business all the data is gone. So we say: reusability. It	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+would be a huge waste to redo all this data.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: What's the reason we don't have data reusablility today but big	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+companies that collect all the data and not a lot of small contributions	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+by people? After all the idea has been around for 20/30 years as well..	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: Consumption is the problem. What's left of our social structure is	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+the 'I want' and 'I get'. Everything in between the 'waiting', 'I need	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+to master this' has been lost to Hypercapitalism.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: What do you think one can do about this? Is your attempt of focussing	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+on simple protocols trying to turn back the wheel of time a little or	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+changing it's direction a little?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: I cannot convert the whole world. That's impossible. It's about showing	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+a different way. Someday someone will come along and use all this because	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+it fits his needs. If I only have a generation of smartphone users that	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+never have touched a personal computer, then they need to know that	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+there's a cleaner and simpler way. You hand does not have to get warm	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+when surfing the web.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: If I may exaggerate a little: We have had steam engines and horse	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+carriages back then, today's tools are a lot better, more efficient and	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+comfortable and enable us more?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: No! We beg to differ: Some of the old protocols could not reach	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+everyone due to technical problems. But now I have gigabit internet	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+connections and so on, content distribution over gopher is instant. You	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+will see a difference. Try moving the mouse on a current Microsoft Windows	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+machine and compare it to a Windows 95 device. The older machine will	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+be faster. There are less layers of abstraction at work, it's simpler. A	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+computer has to do some real work, not existing in pure theory, like in	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+a bureaucracy. It's about practicality and fun.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: Having fun with the computer is a recurring topic. Is this a central	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+point for you and your allies?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: Yes it is like in any other club out there. If it is no fun, why	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+go there? We are hobbyists, working 8-10 hours per day, then I need	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+a good reason for doing this. That may be why there's often rougher	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+commnunication happening. Maybe due to us being human and not service	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+staff. Then it may happen that we demand some signs of self help from	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+others. This is not a self-service shop but a hobby. If I want to be	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+part of that I have to do my share...	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+[radio jingle]	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: Here's the ABS Magasin: Arbeit, Bildung und Soziales. Your magazine	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+about social policies here on radio x the Frankfurt citizen radio. We	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+have talked about the gopher protocol, the simple way of exchanging text	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+over the internet. We will continue our talk with Christoph as there	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+are now some people that want to take care of the future development	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+of gopher. What's the current state of affairs and how to move on? That	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+will be one of the topics of an upcomming conference and we would like	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+to know what will happen there. What's it about?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: It's about 'bitreich con' or conference. That will take place next	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+saturday and sunday in Rodez, d  partement Aveyron, South France as	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+there's a bitreich member living there. But you can also follow the	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+event online. There's the slides available on the gopher hole via ssh,	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+an audio stream via gopher and IRC chat. So everyone can participate.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: So one can listen to talks, the discussions and ask questions via	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+the IRC channel.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: Exactly! And your upper legs won't get burned while doing so.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: What's the schedule for the conference?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: On saturday we will talk about bitreich and what has happened there. We	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+have made changes to our manifest, new members and projects. On sunday we	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+will talk about gopher exclusively. A lot of americans will be looking	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+forward to this as there hasn't been a gopher con in a long time. And	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+they are mostly part of the older gopher community. So this will be the	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+first time that we will all meet together again.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: And what will happen there? Will there be talks, programming sessions	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+or just a social event with discussions?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: The most important thing for gopher is that we restart a discussion	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+that has been dormant for the last years. We need some kind of team	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+spirit again. As I said we do have 300 gopher servers this year, last	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+year there have been 100. So there's an increase. The protocol itself	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+has some sharp edges and warts that need to be discussed as well to	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+define them in the future. Especially interaction between gopher and	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+the web is still undefined. And we want to establish a discussion panel,	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+to keep in touch with each other.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: You say there are 300 servers. What's on them? When I browsed through	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+them I have found a log of 'phlogs', something you would call a blog on	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+the web, right?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: Yes phlogs, just like blogs. There are many of then and there have	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+been a lot of new phlogs. Because distribution of content is so simple,	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+you upload your text and it's there to be read. Very simple, just as it	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+should be. There's nothing more that for a blog as well really. A lot of	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+people do this due to a retro chic, like enjoying it like in the good	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+old days, some also do it due to it's idea of simplicity. Let me open	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+up my slides for a talk I have prepared so I can tell you some services	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+that might be interested for newcommers in the gopherspace.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: Gopherspace is the whole part of the network, all servers running the	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+gopher protocol and all information on them? Just like the world wide web?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: Yes, that's what I mean by that. As an example we have the following	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+services: A gopher frontend for mastodon/GNU Social as an alternative	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+to Facebook. Then there's an interface for the pirate bay's search,	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+an Interface for YouTube (search only), Wikipedia, a search searx which	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+works like Google or duckduckgo but federated. Project Gutenberg, where	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+old books are collected and there's even a search frontend for netflix.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: Those aren't static sites like text or audio or image files. But	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+there are interactive elements?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: That's included in the gopher protocol. It's a search feature where	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+you send a search request to a server and get a response back. That's	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+how it is used in the pirate bay search for example where I send a search	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+term and get back a list of torrents to download.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: That's not very different from websites…	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: Oh yes, it's different! I have mentioned the structure imposed by	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+gopher before. The looks will always be the same. I have a list of menus	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+and links, which I can follow until there's a file behind it or more	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+information. On the web you'll often have trouble finding your content	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+due to all the ads.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: So the web currently is very heavy on graphics giving web designers a	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+lot of possibilities to create a page. And then there are factors that	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+have contributed to rising advertisements and the increasing resource	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+hunger of these websites. Wouldn't it also be a proposal to say: Let's	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+just use HTML 1.0 like in the beginning of the web? You'd get images  and	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+links but no extra code execution via javascript. Is that in alignment	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+with your goals?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: I still have in mind what I have said about meta data and Tor. It would	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+be a step in the right direction but many have tried this and many many	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+have failed. That's a problem. The only thing you can do on the web to day	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+is to browse the mobile version of a site and suddenly it's accessible.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: When you say 'failed', who do you tell? Does that mean it's too	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+complicated to create even simple websites? Or did they fail because they	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+look old and too retro? How can you tell that their attempt has failed?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: It's the same problem why we won't see gopher taking over the	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+world. It's all too big. The same technology is everywhere but is seen	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+differently in India or Afrika than here. Everyone has a different	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+knowledge level. The same is true for repairs. Knowledge gets lost. The	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+current generation does not this. It's important to show them that it	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+can be different, it's about preserving that knowledge.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: With repairs you are referring to the ability to repair your own	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+devices because they are designed in a simple way?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: Yes, but there's more to that today. We are in an era of 3D printing	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+where Airbus will get 40% of the parts for an airplane out of a 3D	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+printer. If done right we can do this also for the end user.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: So the HTML 1.0 revival has been an interesting idea from your point of	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+view but it's not really suited to keep to simple and essential protocols?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: The problem with web development is that it's just piling up	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+layers of software. There's javascript on top of javascript on top of	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+javascript. The same is true for all commercial development. Why is it	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+the hobbyists that have to take care of simplification? Everyone lives	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+in their own filter bubble and as long as there's profit there's no need	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+for change. That's a problem and that's why we have to show a new way	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+as an alternative.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: If I keep piling up layers upon layers and build it so that I can	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+still access the older layers then that's surely an advantage? To be	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+able to continuously carry on work while being backwards compatible	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+without making hard cuts where old content will not work anymore -	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: That's a totally different problem: Take archive.org, the people	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+trying to archive the web. They have huge problems scraping modern	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+webpages trying to find content and archive it. That's due to the core	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+problem of us not useing text anymore. That has to be solved. We use	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+abstractions not test.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: Currently when using HTML, text files are transferred. Or are you	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+fearing that there's just binary data exchanged in the future, to present	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+you an image containing text?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: That's really happening at the moment, it's called web assembly. So	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+there's binary programs being executed in the browser which further	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+complicates it all. This also implies more acccess to the computer	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+hardware, another issue we have been warning about since Snowden. It	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+will get a lot worse.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: That sounds pretty fatalistic, the web is a lost cause and cannot be	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+saved. Is it really that bleak?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: It will get more complex and intransparent. I cannot see it	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+differently. The developments of the last 20 years have been going in	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+this direction. We currently have only 3 web browsers left, that's als	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+a sign. With gopher one can implement a client in a couple of minutes	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+in virtually any programming langugage. There are only 3 browsers left	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+because not a single person will manage to write another one in their	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+live time. That's impossible with current standards.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: Do you have to recreate everything from scratch? Isn't it a	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+possibility to stand on the shoulders of giants and do great things	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+with that? Otherwise we will again have to solve the same problems with	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+primitive tooling that have been solver already.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: That's the same argument we have already had. The world's too big. We	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+offer one proposal how to make things simpler. Sometimes it gets picked	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+up, sometimes it isn't. But it's about spreading this idea: It's possible	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+to make it simpler! There are many people out there doing simple web	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+pages but total and absolute simplicity will not happen. If we'd all use	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+the same webbrowser for example we'd also have all the same security	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+flaws. That's another point: With linux everyone can build their own	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+system and is indepedent. Like with natural selection monoculture makes	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+us fallible to the same virus.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: You say: We need to experiment, we need to be diverse we need to create	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+things as we want them as users which is not the same as companies would	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+like to design webpages and our communications.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: Companies may do what they want, once they see that people use our	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+things because they are fun… as it is happening at Microsoft, they	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+switch over to linux because linux is fun and they are having trouble	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+finding developers that do Micrososift. That's why Microsoft is developing	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+a linux subsystem and is porting linux software to it. Because there's	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+noone who wants to work with this tedious and boring Microsoft stuff.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: Really? I have got the impression that windows is widespread in	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+industry applications where software is available for windows only. Or	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+in the games industry where a x86 windows platform is the prime one and	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+Windows the tool of choice.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: That depends on your point of view! Linux has simply won!	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: *laughs*	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: Take the smartphone: 90% is running linux and there are whole	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+generations of people in africa that use their phones as their sole	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+device. Those are all linux users. Industry and commerce applications	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+are niche products and niches move very slowly. Maybe we'll see a change	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+there in 20-30 years. And that's the point: Now we have the possibility,	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+now that there are no developers for Microsoft that do it with all their	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+heart, it's all about passion anyway, then we have people here on the	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+other hadn, that switch all over to linux. Microsoft is supporting docker,	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+they even distribute their own linux images for their cloud service. Linux	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+has won.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: You said that in some countries the desktop is irrelevant now, a	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+smartphone more important. Do you think that's a development that will	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+also reach us? Will the smartphone replace the laptop?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: I can simply tell you an observation: We have had a village festival	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+here the other day and all the young ladies where sitting there using	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+their smartphone.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: Okay...	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: That's a sign isn't it!	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: I see that you have a clear picture in mind… How's the reach of	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+your project with gopher, irc and alternative social networks. Do you	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+see any international recognition? Or is it more some experiment of	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+people in the industrial nations?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: Americans, as these are the old Gents that have been tinkering with	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+gopher in the old days, but there is also a wide reach in europ. I have	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+seen a world map yesterday containing all the gopher servers. There	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+have been 3 in africa, japan has had a couple, asia… there are	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+interested people everywhere. I know 2 enthusiasts from argentina through	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+bitreich. We are international, english is our langugae as wer are small.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: Is there a way to access gopher on smartphones?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: Proxies are the easiest way, seconed by 'overbite'. That's a gopher	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+plugin for browsers made by Cameron Kaiser, an american developer. He has	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+build solutions for Firefox and Chromium. You can find this through your	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+webbrowser. There are also graphical clients but those you'll have to	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+build yourself, so that's not suitable for beginners. But it's the same	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+as on the desktop: The advanced users have their command line where they	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+can run any of the command line clients, as it is a linux system. And	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+the people specialised on the web can access it through a proxy. So	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+there's accessibility on all levels including 'backwards' compatibility.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: You'll have your conference soon, where you will exchange ideas. Will	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+there be a way to read up on this later?	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+C: Yes the recordings and slides will be available online.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+M: Being available online is the right clue! You all know that	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+you can listen to all of episodes of the ABS Magazin on our website	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+absmagazin.de. There you can listen again to how this all works, have a	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+look at the shownotes where we will put in all the links that have been	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+mentioned on the show.	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+You have been listening to this week's episode of the ABS Magazine. You	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+have seen that there are many possibilities and a lot of them you can	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+use for yourself, to create your information channels as you want them	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+to be. Thanks for being with us, thanks for listening! You can join	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+us again next week at 4pm on radio-x, 91,8MHz your Frankfurt citizen	Err	bitreich.org	70
i+radio. So long!	Err	bitreich.org	70
.