ispell checking - radio-interview-2018 - absmagazine interview about bitreich and gopher transcription files Err bitreich.org 70 hgit clone git://bitreich.org/radio-interview-2018 URL:git://bitreich.org/radio-interview-2018 bitreich.org 70 1Log /scm/radio-interview-2018/log.gph bitreich.org 70 1Files /scm/radio-interview-2018/files.gph bitreich.org 70 1Refs /scm/radio-interview-2018/refs.gph bitreich.org 70 1Tags /scm/radio-interview-2018/tag bitreich.org 70 1README /scm/radio-interview-2018/file/README.gph bitreich.org 70 1LICENSE /scm/radio-interview-2018/file/LICENSE.gph bitreich.org 70 i--- Err bitreich.org 70 1commit eb92505d454c7f282dae7957db4814d54a502121 /scm/radio-interview-2018/commit/eb92505d454c7f282dae7957db4814d54a502121.gph bitreich.org 70 1parent 4f823d9f19426e568650b3a53accd0a5a1d9c26b /scm/radio-interview-2018/commit/4f823d9f19426e568650b3a53accd0a5a1d9c26b.gph bitreich.org 70 hAuthor: Christian Kellermann URL:mailto:ckeen@pestilenz.org bitreich.org 70 iDate: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 13:32:17 +0200 Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 ispell checking Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 iDiffstat: Err bitreich.org 70 i M english.txt | 184 ++++++++++++++++---------------- Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i1 file changed, 92 insertions(+), 92 deletions(-) Err bitreich.org 70 i--- Err bitreich.org 70 1diff --git a/english.txt b/english.txt /scm/radio-interview-2018/file/english.txt.gph bitreich.org 70 i@@ -8,18 +8,18 @@ Nice to have you all here! Thanks for listening! We have got a new episode Err bitreich.org 70 i for you, exciting things from the realm of communication technology. Err bitreich.org 70 i We want to talk specifically about the internet... No, we do not want to Err bitreich.org 70 i talk about the internet, neither do we want to talk about the dark net Err bitreich.org 70 i-today, but something even more obscure: Today will be about 'gopherspace'. Err bitreich.org 70 i+today, but something even more obscure: Today will be about 'gopher space'. Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i 'Gopher' is a protocol, which has been introduced a bit earlier than Err bitreich.org 70 i the world wide web. But it has faded a bit into obscurity. A protocol, Err bitreich.org 70 i which might have to be said, is the way how computers talk to each Err bitreich.org 70 i other, how they exchange their data. You may have heard about the HTTP Err bitreich.org 70 i-protocol. You are using this when typing an URL into your brower. Or Err bitreich.org 70 i+protocol. You are using this when typing an URL into your browser. Or Err bitreich.org 70 i there is a protocol handling the exchange of E-Mails. And there's the Err bitreich.org 70 i 'gopher' protocol. Which is interesting in particular as it is simple Err bitreich.org 70 i and similar to the web, such as: Gopher server provide text and provide Err bitreich.org 70 i links. What they do not provide are pictures, additional features, Err bitreich.org 70 i-Javascript or other complicated things. Err bitreich.org 70 i+JavaScript or other complicated things. Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i This restriction providing test and links does also mean, that you can Err bitreich.org 70 i work very fast with it, pages do load super fast. And there are people Err bitreich.org 70 i@@ -28,11 +28,11 @@ much nick-nack. It is getting more and more difficult to get to the real Err bitreich.org 70 i information on a site. Under these circumstance it is to the point to Err bitreich.org 70 i have a closer look at the gopher protocol. Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i-We have talked to someone, who's knowledgable in this field. There Err bitreich.org 70 i+We have talked to someone, who's knowledgeable in this field. There Err bitreich.org 70 i is a group of people who will hold a conference soon, to discuss the Err bitreich.org 70 i future of the gopher protocol and how to build a real, interesting, Err bitreich.org 70 i alternative to the world wide web. But now we will have a little bit Err bitreich.org 70 i-of music: Mrs. Beep with 'The spring is comming' a little bit of 8bit Err bitreich.org 70 i+of music: Mrs. Beep with 'The spring is coming' a little bit of 8 bit Err bitreich.org 70 i music. After that we will talk with Christoph Lohmann, who will tell us Err bitreich.org 70 i something about the gopher protocol. Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i@@ -51,18 +51,18 @@ M: I have read that you are running a project called 'bitreich'. This Err bitreich.org 70 i project is using some protocols that aren't known widely. But what's Err bitreich.org 70 i this project about? Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i-C: bitreich's goal si to create simple software. This includes simple Err bitreich.org 70 i+C: bitreich's goal is to create simple software. This includes simple Err bitreich.org 70 i protocols like gopher. Simple principles, software that's fun to use. Our Err bitreich.org 70 i-goals are stated on the website or better the gopherhole. Err bitreich.org 70 i+goals are stated on the website or better the gopher hole. Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i M: Yes... Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i C: There are.. Well, we wanted to talk about gopher. It's about replacing Err bitreich.org 70 i-big complex thingswith simple stuff which you can even implement yourself. Err bitreich.org 70 i+big complex things with simple stuff which you can even implement yourself. Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i-M: Gopher does translate as 'Maulwurf' (german) right? Err bitreich.org 70 i+M: Gopher does translate as 'Maulwurf' (German) right? Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i-C: Yes it does, it is derived from the gopher mascott of the MIT, Err bitreich.org 70 i+C: Yes it does, it is derived from the gopher mascot of the MIT, Err bitreich.org 70 i a university in the US. Also it is a pun on 'to go for'. Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i M: This protocol has existed for quite a long time now, probably earlier Err bitreich.org 70 i@@ -105,7 +105,7 @@ M: Or two people talk to each other, they also can exchange ideas or Err bitreich.org 70 i information that way. Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i C: Yeah, text is even more simple. If you take this further, there's for Err bitreich.org 70 i-example linux, which listeners may have heard about. That's about how I Err bitreich.org 70 i+example Linux, which listeners may have heard about. That's about how I Err bitreich.org 70 i can do text processing on the command line. With images you'll have to Err bitreich.org 70 i deal with more complex algorithms and that's not as easy to use. Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i@@ -114,8 +114,8 @@ that use less resources? If I transfer a text file it is probably much Err bitreich.org 70 i smaller than an Image or a video file. Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i C: Yes, that's right. I can tell a story where I have needed this Err bitreich.org 70 i-badly: In Bhutan in south asia, north of India, where it's all about Err bitreich.org 70 i-the happyness of people, not like here… They have got a GSM Network Err bitreich.org 70 i+badly: In Bhutan in south Asia, north of India, where it's all about Err bitreich.org 70 i+the happiness of people, not like here… They have got a GSM Network Err bitreich.org 70 i only. There has been a blackout and there has been only this slow data Err bitreich.org 70 i network. But I have successfully retrieved my needed information via Err bitreich.org 70 i gopher. It does not need a lot of resources. Err bitreich.org 70 i@@ -124,7 +124,7 @@ M: So it is a protocol that's interesting for areas that are less Err bitreich.org 70 i developed or where the aren't so many resources available? Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i C: Yes, gopher saves resources, but over all, since the web's problem is Err bitreich.org 70 i-illustrated with youtube: Someone reads a text in a video which is served Err bitreich.org 70 i+illustrated with YouTube: Someone reads a text in a video which is served Err bitreich.org 70 i in HD and viewed on a 4k monitor. I could have sent out the text instead! Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i M: So the approach is this: Here is a protocol and programs, allowing to Err bitreich.org 70 i@@ -159,7 +159,7 @@ that really taking out the fun? Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i C: Well, in the old days you'd have opened a text editor, which used up Err bitreich.org 70 i 200 kilobyte of RAM. Today when you open up an editor it will load a Err bitreich.org 70 i-webbroser in the background, this webbrowser will load javascript and Err bitreich.org 70 i+browser in the background, this web browser will load JavaScript and Err bitreich.org 70 i this all uses up to several gigabytes of your RAM. And then this all Err bitreich.org 70 i has to display your source file. That's the current state of affairs! Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i@@ -183,16 +183,16 @@ a program to chat with others? Err bitreich.org 70 i C: There are different layers here. First you start by visiting Err bitreich.org 70 i gopherproject.org and if you are not using a gopher client you will Err bitreich.org 70 i be redirected to a 'web to gopher converter'. You'll be able to browse Err bitreich.org 70 i-gopher sites in your webbrowser. And that's the entry point where you Err bitreich.org 70 i+gopher sites in your web browser. And that's the entry point where you Err bitreich.org 70 i will get to further gates. Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i M: So it's a gateway that I can use with a normal browser that does not Err bitreich.org 70 i speak gopher and still be able to browse gopher sites? Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i-C: There are also plugins for webbrowsers, at least firefox and Err bitreich.org 70 i+C: There are also plugins for web browsers, at least Firefox and Err bitreich.org 70 i chromium. One of the problems is that currently there has been a change Err bitreich.org 70 i-in plugins for these so there might be incompatiblilities. There are Err bitreich.org 70 i-many more clients listed on gopherproject.org. Err bitreich.org 70 i+in plugins for these so there might be incompatibilities. There are Err bitreich.org 70 i+many more clients listed on gopher project.org. Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i M: What about chat? I know there was a protocol that has been in use a Err bitreich.org 70 i lot: IRC - Internet relay chat. That's not as popular today is it? Err bitreich.org 70 i@@ -213,13 +213,13 @@ C: I do have the possibility to share, say a video, in whatsapp or Err bitreich.org 70 i images. You do not want this on IRC, it is a simple protocol. It's about Err bitreich.org 70 i sharing text. If I would add media, it would be impossible for hobbyists Err bitreich.org 70 i to run their own servers. You'd need more infrastructure on the size of Err bitreich.org 70 i-facebook for example… Err bitreich.org 70 i+Facebook for example… Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i M: You have said that 'hobbyists wouldn't be able to run their own Err bitreich.org 70 i servers'. Does that mean it is easy to set up? Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i-C: There are several possibilities: There's debian for example, a well Err bitreich.org 70 i-known linux distribution, there are simple tutorials and instructions Err bitreich.org 70 i+C: There are several possibilities: There's Debian for example, a well Err bitreich.org 70 i+known Linux distribution, there are simple tutorials and instructions Err bitreich.org 70 i on how to set this up. A server has a monthly cost of about 3 EUR/month, Err bitreich.org 70 i which will be able to run a IRC server. Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i@@ -229,7 +229,7 @@ C: The server side is a bit more complicated, the client access is Err bitreich.org 70 i really easy. Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i M: What other protocols are there, that follow this same idea of Err bitreich.org 70 i-preserving bandwith and resources while being comparable replacements? Err bitreich.org 70 i+preserving bandwidth and resources while being comparable replacements? Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i C: Before the web there have been many other protocols already, based Err bitreich.org 70 i on the TCP/IP protocol. On there are ~65000 different ports that can be Err bitreich.org 70 i@@ -263,8 +263,8 @@ C: Yes it is about anonymity. Today we now about the spy agencies Err bitreich.org 70 i through Snowden and them surveilling all the routers in Frankfurt and Err bitreich.org 70 i elsewhere. Which means they know where a data packet originates and Err bitreich.org 70 i ends. Tor packages data in a way that one cannot see the way the a packet Err bitreich.org 70 i-is travelling. But the problem with Tor and the web is that there is a Err bitreich.org 70 i-lot of meta data in a webbrowser. This can be used to identify users. This Err bitreich.org 70 i+is traveling. But the problem with Tor and the web is that there is a Err bitreich.org 70 i+lot of meta data in a web browser. This can be used to identify users. This Err bitreich.org 70 i is where gopher can help. Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i M: So Tor is a method to hide your identity and what websites you are Err bitreich.org 70 i@@ -272,7 +272,7 @@ visiting. When you say that there is too much meta data in a browser, Err bitreich.org 70 i then this means: Information about the browser's config, installed fonts, Err bitreich.org 70 i size of available RAM etc. Taken together all this information makes Err bitreich.org 70 i a user's device unique as there are maybe only ~1000 people having the Err bitreich.org 70 i-same configuraition. That's how one can identify users right? Err bitreich.org 70 i+same configuration. That's how one can identify users right? Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i C: Yes, that's how it works. Gopher can help here because there's a Err bitreich.org 70 i defined amount of meta data: zero. With Tor there are a couple of things Err bitreich.org 70 i@@ -288,28 +288,28 @@ M: If you use Tor and you login somewhere then your identity isn't hidden Err bitreich.org 70 i anymore of course… Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i C: That's a problem for inexperienced users. They download the Err bitreich.org 70 i-Tor-Browser, want to share their secrets about their regime. If I jsut Err bitreich.org 70 i-hand them a torbrowser, it has certain metadata which spy agencys have Err bitreich.org 70 i+Tor-Browser, want to share their secrets about their regime. If I just Err bitreich.org 70 i+hand them a tor browser, it has certain metadata which spy agencys have Err bitreich.org 70 i special filters for. So they can be found easily. Which means all the Err bitreich.org 70 i-basic layers have to be designed securely that the average whistleblower Err bitreich.org 70 i+basic layers have to be designed securely that the average whistle blower Err bitreich.org 70 i will not get in trouble. Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i-M: There have been differnt attempts at preserving privacy and not Err bitreich.org 70 i+M: There have been different attempts at preserving privacy and not Err bitreich.org 70 i handing over data to big companies, by not taking part in one of the big Err bitreich.org 70 i networks. Are there alternatives to them? As opposed to using Facebook Err bitreich.org 70 i & Co. Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i-C: There's GNU Social for example or mastodon. If I go to facebook all Err bitreich.org 70 i+C: There's GNU Social for example or mastodon. If I go to Facebook all Err bitreich.org 70 i data goes in and I get nothing out again. But if I use one of these Err bitreich.org 70 i (slightly more complex) protocols on my home server I can exchange Err bitreich.org 70 i-messages with my friend in france, like: 'He has shared this picture or Err bitreich.org 70 i-text message to the group'. That's decentralisation. Err bitreich.org 70 i+messages with my friend in France, like: 'He has shared this picture or Err bitreich.org 70 i+text message to the group'. That's decentralization. Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i-M: So there's no central datacenter holding all information, but many Err bitreich.org 70 i+M: So there's no central data center holding all information, but many Err bitreich.org 70 i servers holding on to what they need to know only. Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i-C: The facebook data scandal happened at the right time. There you Err bitreich.org 70 i-noticed that there's political resistance. So facebook, Microsoft and Err bitreich.org 70 i+C: The Facebook data scandal happened at the right time. There you Err bitreich.org 70 i+noticed that there's political resistance. So Facebook, Microsoft and Err bitreich.org 70 i others started a project to exchange and export data. But so far Facebook Err bitreich.org 70 i hasn't delivered. Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i@@ -320,22 +320,22 @@ C: I am referring to my timeline and all this. Err bitreich.org 70 i M: Are there many people using GNU Social or mastodon? Or is this a Err bitreich.org 70 i niche for specialists and nerds that care more about their privacy? Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i-C: It's really easy to use: enter 'gnu.social' in a webbrowser and Err bitreich.org 70 i-you will get redirected ot a server instance. There are many of them Err bitreich.org 70 i+C: It's really easy to use: enter 'gnu.social' in a web browser and Err bitreich.org 70 i+you will get redirected to a server instance. There are many of them Err bitreich.org 70 i and you choose the one where all your friends are already in the best Err bitreich.org 70 i case. You sign up there and then you will use this server to post into Err bitreich.org 70 i the network. It's all usable within the browser and it looks a lot Err bitreich.org 70 i-like facebook. Err bitreich.org 70 i+like Facebook. Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i M: We have talked about software and how to install it. You need to have Err bitreich.org 70 i some background knowledge for using a command line as it is just a window Err bitreich.org 70 i with text, you enter text commands etc. What do you think about people Err bitreich.org 70 i getting into this: Does this have the potential to being used by a lot Err bitreich.org 70 i-of people or even becomming mainstream? Can this work? Or is this too Err bitreich.org 70 i+of people or even becoming mainstream? Can this work? Or is this too Err bitreich.org 70 i unwieldy and slow and complex for them? Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i C: Let's look at the argument someone makes when switching from windows Err bitreich.org 70 i-to linux: But there's only a command line! But if I take interest in Err bitreich.org 70 i+to Linux: But there's only a command line! But if I take interest in Err bitreich.org 70 i my device then I'll learn how to use it. Back in the days I could fix Err bitreich.org 70 i a radio myself. Today I don't know what this funny device is doing… Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i@@ -354,7 +354,7 @@ the station you want. Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i C: I want to make a counter proposal: The problem with this is that you'll Err bitreich.org 70 i have to buy a new device every year a new protocol is established. But Err bitreich.org 70 i-there are also things like the Raspberry Pi that's running linux and you Err bitreich.org 70 i+there are also things like the Raspberry Pi that's running Linux and you Err bitreich.org 70 i can build your peripherals around that. If you want you can exchange Err bitreich.org 70 i that for something with more computing power later. It's all about Err bitreich.org 70 i modularity and wasting less. For computers and smartphones we do see Err bitreich.org 70 i@@ -367,7 +367,7 @@ carrying around paper maps. Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i C: That's why we talk about this. People need to know that the price Err bitreich.org 70 i for all this comfort is being under total surveillance. And the Err bitreich.org 70 i-machine controlls me. That's why one needs to know how the machine Err bitreich.org 70 i+machine controls me. That's why one needs to know how the machine Err bitreich.org 70 i works. Otherwise this will all be like magic and magic is never a good Err bitreich.org 70 i thing. We need more science. Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i@@ -376,13 +376,13 @@ with an app and can accurately see where I am. That's a service I'd like Err bitreich.org 70 i to use, but I don't want to wade through complex software and install Err bitreich.org 70 i text only interfaces. That's too much for most people I think? Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i-C: Yes, noone will get attracted because of that. We do advocate that Err bitreich.org 70 i+C: Yes, no one will get attracted because of that. We do advocate that Err bitreich.org 70 i every project should be reusable. If we talk about maps, there's a map Err bitreich.org 70 i database, openstreetmap. There's someone that inputs all the maps into Err bitreich.org 70 i the database, there's a program generating maps. Now someone can put a Err bitreich.org 70 i text interface in front of the database to get to the same data. Not like Err bitreich.org 70 i-facebook where data is hidden behind one web interface. If Facebook's Err bitreich.org 70 i-going out of business all the data is gone. So we say: reusability. It Err bitreich.org 70 i+Facebook where data is hidden behind one web interface. If Facebook's Err bitreich.org 70 i+going out of business all the data is gone. So we say: re-usability. It Err bitreich.org 70 i would be a huge waste to redo all this data. Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i M: What's the reason we don't have data reusablility today but big Err bitreich.org 70 i@@ -391,9 +391,9 @@ by people? After all the idea has been around for 20/30 years as well.. Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i C: Consumption is the problem. What's left of our social structure is Err bitreich.org 70 i the 'I want' and 'I get'. Everything in between the 'waiting', 'I need Err bitreich.org 70 i-to master this' has been lost to Hypercapitalism. Err bitreich.org 70 i+to master this' has been lost to Hyper-capitalism. Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i-M: What do you think one can do about this? Is your attempt of focussing Err bitreich.org 70 i+M: What do you think one can do about this? Is your attempt of focusing Err bitreich.org 70 i on simple protocols trying to turn back the wheel of time a little or Err bitreich.org 70 i changing it's direction a little? Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i@@ -423,7 +423,7 @@ point for you and your allies? Err bitreich.org 70 i C: Yes it is like in any other club out there. If it is no fun, why Err bitreich.org 70 i go there? We are hobbyists, working 8-10 hours per day, then I need Err bitreich.org 70 i a good reason for doing this. That may be why there's often rougher Err bitreich.org 70 i-commnunication happening. Maybe due to us being human and not service Err bitreich.org 70 i+communication happening. Maybe due to us being human and not service Err bitreich.org 70 i staff. Then it may happen that we demand some signs of self help from Err bitreich.org 70 i others. This is not a self-service shop but a hobby. If I want to be Err bitreich.org 70 i part of that I have to do my share... Err bitreich.org 70 i@@ -437,11 +437,11 @@ have talked about the gopher protocol, the simple way of exchanging text Err bitreich.org 70 i over the internet. We will continue our talk with Christoph as there Err bitreich.org 70 i are now some people that want to take care of the future development Err bitreich.org 70 i of gopher. What's the current state of affairs and how to move on? That Err bitreich.org 70 i-will be one of the topics of an upcomming conference and we would like Err bitreich.org 70 i+will be one of the topics of an upcoming conference and we would like Err bitreich.org 70 i to know what will happen there. What's it about? Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i C: It's about 'bitreich con' or conference. That will take place next Err bitreich.org 70 i-saturday and sunday in Rodez, d partement Aveyron, South France as Err bitreich.org 70 i+Saturday and Sunday in Rodez, d partement Aveyron, South France as Err bitreich.org 70 i there's a bitreich member living there. But you can also follow the Err bitreich.org 70 i event online. There's the slides available on the gopher hole via ssh, Err bitreich.org 70 i an audio stream via gopher and IRC chat. So everyone can participate. Err bitreich.org 70 i@@ -453,9 +453,9 @@ C: Exactly! And your upper legs won't get burned while doing so. Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i M: What's the schedule for the conference? Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i-C: On saturday we will talk about bitreich and what has happened there. We Err bitreich.org 70 i-have made changes to our manifest, new members and projects. On sunday we Err bitreich.org 70 i-will talk about gopher exclusively. A lot of americans will be looking Err bitreich.org 70 i+C: On Saturday we will talk about bitreich and what has happened there. We Err bitreich.org 70 i+have made changes to our manifest, new members and projects. On Sunday we Err bitreich.org 70 i+will talk about gopher exclusively. A lot of Americans will be looking Err bitreich.org 70 i forward to this as there hasn't been a gopher con in a long time. And Err bitreich.org 70 i they are mostly part of the older gopher community. So this will be the Err bitreich.org 70 i first time that we will all meet together again. Err bitreich.org 70 i@@ -483,17 +483,17 @@ should be. There's nothing more that for a blog as well really. A lot of Err bitreich.org 70 i people do this due to a retro chic, like enjoying it like in the good Err bitreich.org 70 i old days, some also do it due to it's idea of simplicity. Let me open Err bitreich.org 70 i up my slides for a talk I have prepared so I can tell you some services Err bitreich.org 70 i-that might be interested for newcommers in the gopherspace. Err bitreich.org 70 i+that might be interested for newcomers in the gopher space. Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i-M: Gopherspace is the whole part of the network, all servers running the Err bitreich.org 70 i+M: Gopher space is the whole part of the network, all servers running the Err bitreich.org 70 i gopher protocol and all information on them? Just like the world wide web? Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i C: Yes, that's what I mean by that. As an example we have the following Err bitreich.org 70 i-services: A gopher frontend for mastodon/GNU Social as an alternative Err bitreich.org 70 i+services: A gopher fronted for mastodon/GNU Social as an alternative Err bitreich.org 70 i to Facebook. Then there's an interface for the pirate bay's search, Err bitreich.org 70 i an Interface for YouTube (search only), Wikipedia, a search searx which Err bitreich.org 70 i works like Google or duckduckgo but federated. Project Gutenberg, where Err bitreich.org 70 i-old books are collected and there's even a search frontend for netflix. Err bitreich.org 70 i+old books are collected and there's even a search fronted for Netflix. Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i M: Those aren't static sites like text or audio or image files. But Err bitreich.org 70 i there are interactive elements? Err bitreich.org 70 i@@ -516,7 +516,7 @@ lot of possibilities to create a page. And then there are factors that Err bitreich.org 70 i have contributed to rising advertisements and the increasing resource Err bitreich.org 70 i hunger of these websites. Wouldn't it also be a proposal to say: Let's Err bitreich.org 70 i just use HTML 1.0 like in the beginning of the web? You'd get images and Err bitreich.org 70 i-links but no extra code execution via javascript. Is that in alignment Err bitreich.org 70 i+links but no extra code execution via JavaScript. Is that in alignment Err bitreich.org 70 i with your goals? Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i C: I still have in mind what I have said about meta data and Tor. It would Err bitreich.org 70 i@@ -530,7 +530,7 @@ look old and too retro? How can you tell that their attempt has failed? Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i C: It's the same problem why we won't see gopher taking over the Err bitreich.org 70 i world. It's all too big. The same technology is everywhere but is seen Err bitreich.org 70 i-differently in India or Afrika than here. Everyone has a different Err bitreich.org 70 i+differently in India or Africa than here. Everyone has a different Err bitreich.org 70 i knowledge level. The same is true for repairs. Knowledge gets lost. The Err bitreich.org 70 i current generation does not this. It's important to show them that it Err bitreich.org 70 i can be different, it's about preserving that knowledge. Err bitreich.org 70 i@@ -546,8 +546,8 @@ M: So the HTML 1.0 revival has been an interesting idea from your point of Err bitreich.org 70 i view but it's not really suited to keep to simple and essential protocols? Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i C: The problem with web development is that it's just piling up Err bitreich.org 70 i-layers of software. There's javascript on top of javascript on top of Err bitreich.org 70 i-javascript. The same is true for all commercial development. Why is it Err bitreich.org 70 i+layers of software. There's JavaScript on top of JavaScript on top of Err bitreich.org 70 i+JavaScript. The same is true for all commercial development. Why is it Err bitreich.org 70 i the hobbyists that have to take care of simplification? Everyone lives Err bitreich.org 70 i in their own filter bubble and as long as there's profit there's no need Err bitreich.org 70 i for change. That's a problem and that's why we have to show a new way Err bitreich.org 70 i@@ -560,8 +560,8 @@ without making hard cuts where old content will not work anymore - Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i C: That's a totally different problem: Take archive.org, the people Err bitreich.org 70 i trying to archive the web. They have huge problems scraping modern Err bitreich.org 70 i-webpages trying to find content and archive it. That's due to the core Err bitreich.org 70 i-problem of us not useing text anymore. That has to be solved. We use Err bitreich.org 70 i+web pages trying to find content and archive it. That's due to the core Err bitreich.org 70 i+problem of us not using text anymore. That has to be solved. We use Err bitreich.org 70 i abstractions not test. Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i M: Currently when using HTML, text files are transferred. Or are you Err bitreich.org 70 i@@ -570,18 +570,18 @@ you an image containing text? Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i C: That's really happening at the moment, it's called web assembly. So Err bitreich.org 70 i there's binary programs being executed in the browser which further Err bitreich.org 70 i-complicates it all. This also implies more acccess to the computer Err bitreich.org 70 i+complicates it all. This also implies more access to the computer Err bitreich.org 70 i hardware, another issue we have been warning about since Snowden. It Err bitreich.org 70 i will get a lot worse. Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i M: That sounds pretty fatalistic, the web is a lost cause and cannot be Err bitreich.org 70 i saved. Is it really that bleak? Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i-C: It will get more complex and intransparent. I cannot see it Err bitreich.org 70 i+C: It will get more complex and nontransparent. I cannot see it Err bitreich.org 70 i differently. The developments of the last 20 years have been going in Err bitreich.org 70 i-this direction. We currently have only 3 web browsers left, that's als Err bitreich.org 70 i+this direction. We currently have only 3 web browsers left, that's also Err bitreich.org 70 i a sign. With gopher one can implement a client in a couple of minutes Err bitreich.org 70 i-in virtually any programming langugage. There are only 3 browsers left Err bitreich.org 70 i+in virtually any programming language. There are only 3 browsers left Err bitreich.org 70 i because not a single person will manage to write another one in their Err bitreich.org 70 i live time. That's impossible with current standards. Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i@@ -595,21 +595,21 @@ offer one proposal how to make things simpler. Sometimes it gets picked Err bitreich.org 70 i up, sometimes it isn't. But it's about spreading this idea: It's possible Err bitreich.org 70 i to make it simpler! There are many people out there doing simple web Err bitreich.org 70 i pages but total and absolute simplicity will not happen. If we'd all use Err bitreich.org 70 i-the same webbrowser for example we'd also have all the same security Err bitreich.org 70 i-flaws. That's another point: With linux everyone can build their own Err bitreich.org 70 i-system and is indepedent. Like with natural selection monoculture makes Err bitreich.org 70 i+the same web browser for example we'd also have all the same security Err bitreich.org 70 i+flaws. That's another point: With Linux everyone can build their own Err bitreich.org 70 i+system and is independent. Like with natural selection mono culture makes Err bitreich.org 70 i us fallible to the same virus. Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i M: You say: We need to experiment, we need to be diverse we need to create Err bitreich.org 70 i things as we want them as users which is not the same as companies would Err bitreich.org 70 i-like to design webpages and our communications. Err bitreich.org 70 i+like to design web pages and our communications. Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i C: Companies may do what they want, once they see that people use our Err bitreich.org 70 i things because they are fun… as it is happening at Microsoft, they Err bitreich.org 70 i-switch over to linux because linux is fun and they are having trouble Err bitreich.org 70 i-finding developers that do Micrososift. That's why Microsoft is developing Err bitreich.org 70 i-a linux subsystem and is porting linux software to it. Because there's Err bitreich.org 70 i-noone who wants to work with this tedious and boring Microsoft stuff. Err bitreich.org 70 i+switch over to Linux because Linux is fun and they are having trouble Err bitreich.org 70 i+finding developers that do Microsoft. That's why Microsoft is developing Err bitreich.org 70 i+a Linux subsystem and is porting Linux software to it. Because there's Err bitreich.org 70 i+no one who wants to work with this tedious and boring Microsoft stuff. Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i M: Really? I have got the impression that windows is widespread in Err bitreich.org 70 i industry applications where software is available for windows only. Or Err bitreich.org 70 i@@ -620,15 +620,15 @@ C: That depends on your point of view! Linux has simply won! Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i M: *laughs* Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i-C: Take the smartphone: 90% is running linux and there are whole Err bitreich.org 70 i-generations of people in africa that use their phones as their sole Err bitreich.org 70 i-device. Those are all linux users. Industry and commerce applications Err bitreich.org 70 i+C: Take the smartphone: 90% is running Linux and there are whole Err bitreich.org 70 i+generations of people in Africa that use their phones as their sole Err bitreich.org 70 i+device. Those are all Linux users. Industry and commerce applications Err bitreich.org 70 i are niche products and niches move very slowly. Maybe we'll see a change Err bitreich.org 70 i there in 20-30 years. And that's the point: Now we have the possibility, Err bitreich.org 70 i now that there are no developers for Microsoft that do it with all their Err bitreich.org 70 i heart, it's all about passion anyway, then we have people here on the Err bitreich.org 70 i-other hadn, that switch all over to linux. Microsoft is supporting docker, Err bitreich.org 70 i-they even distribute their own linux images for their cloud service. Linux Err bitreich.org 70 i+other hand, that switch all over to Linux. Microsoft is supporting docker, Err bitreich.org 70 i+they even distribute their own Linux images for their cloud service. Linux Err bitreich.org 70 i has won. Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i M: You said that in some countries the desktop is irrelevant now, a Err bitreich.org 70 i@@ -644,27 +644,27 @@ M: Okay... Err bitreich.org 70 i C: That's a sign isn't it! Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i M: I see that you have a clear picture in mind… How's the reach of Err bitreich.org 70 i-your project with gopher, irc and alternative social networks. Do you Err bitreich.org 70 i+your project with gopher, IRC and alternative social networks. Do you Err bitreich.org 70 i see any international recognition? Or is it more some experiment of Err bitreich.org 70 i people in the industrial nations? Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i C: Americans, as these are the old Gents that have been tinkering with Err bitreich.org 70 i-gopher in the old days, but there is also a wide reach in europ. I have Err bitreich.org 70 i+gopher in the old days, but there is also a wide reach in Europe. I have Err bitreich.org 70 i seen a world map yesterday containing all the gopher servers. There Err bitreich.org 70 i-have been 3 in africa, japan has had a couple, asia… there are Err bitreich.org 70 i-interested people everywhere. I know 2 enthusiasts from argentina through Err bitreich.org 70 i-bitreich. We are international, english is our langugae as wer are small. Err bitreich.org 70 i+have been 3 in Africa, japan has had a couple, Asia… there are Err bitreich.org 70 i+interested people everywhere. I know 2 enthusiasts from Argentina through Err bitreich.org 70 i+bitreich. We are international, English is our language as we are small. Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i M: Is there a way to access gopher on smartphones? Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i-C: Proxies are the easiest way, seconed by 'overbite'. That's a gopher Err bitreich.org 70 i-plugin for browsers made by Cameron Kaiser, an american developer. He has Err bitreich.org 70 i+C: Proxies are the easiest way, seconded by 'overbite'. That's a gopher Err bitreich.org 70 i+plugin for browsers made by Cameron Kaiser, an American developer. He has Err bitreich.org 70 i build solutions for Firefox and Chromium. You can find this through your Err bitreich.org 70 i-webbrowser. There are also graphical clients but those you'll have to Err bitreich.org 70 i+web browser. There are also graphical clients but those you'll have to Err bitreich.org 70 i build yourself, so that's not suitable for beginners. But it's the same Err bitreich.org 70 i as on the desktop: The advanced users have their command line where they Err bitreich.org 70 i-can run any of the command line clients, as it is a linux system. And Err bitreich.org 70 i-the people specialised on the web can access it through a proxy. So Err bitreich.org 70 i+can run any of the command line clients, as it is a Linux system. And Err bitreich.org 70 i+the people specialized on the web can access it through a proxy. So Err bitreich.org 70 i there's accessibility on all levels including 'backwards' compatibility. Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i M: You'll have your conference soon, where you will exchange ideas. Will Err bitreich.org 70 i@@ -675,7 +675,7 @@ C: Yes the recordings and slides will be available online. Err bitreich.org 70 i M: Being available online is the right clue! You all know that Err bitreich.org 70 i you can listen to all of episodes of the ABS Magazin on our website Err bitreich.org 70 i absmagazin.de. There you can listen again to how this all works, have a Err bitreich.org 70 i-look at the shownotes where we will put in all the links that have been Err bitreich.org 70 i+look at the show notes where we will put in all the links that have been Err bitreich.org 70 i mentioned on the show. Err bitreich.org 70 i Err bitreich.org 70 i You have been listening to this week's episode of the ABS Magazine. You Err bitreich.org 70 .